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Yup sent out just now. I modified one of the forum links, from the one that Pat Sale started, to the one that Ryan started which had the images of the tops and logos.
[size=3:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]Kyle’s recommended plan of attack for running the DIHL[/b:1qcipg8z][/size:1qcipg8z]
Note, these are the times that work for me no worries. They could be more compressed, the timeline doesn’t start to be a problem for anyone else until you involve other players. Technically the first part could be done in a couple of days.
[b:1qcipg8z]8 weeks from DIHL:[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]Go through a re-grading process (see below under General Notes).[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Read the DIHA rulebook[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Have a meeting of ‘people to help you organise the dihl’. I have a couple of people that have indicated that they’re keen to help. Don’t expect too much of people, particularly in turning up to the meeting, but at the least you might get some team managers out of it[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Get the DIHL database from Kyle[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Workout the optimum time/weeks to hold the games[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Calculate the cost. Note that DIHA would appreciate the DIHL to make money, as it pays for senior/snc coaching, so cost should be $10/game/person or by team. That way it makes a profit as long as teams are anything more than 9+goalie[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Book the ice with Neil. Check with Joyce first and make sure that the DIHA is happy with the times you’re booking[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Get original Word documents for all the DIHL documentation from Kyle or Ryan[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Update event notice and registration form and update team registration information if necessary. Ryan talks about posting it to the forum. I guess you could do it that way, or just post it to one or two people and ask them to look at it. Unless you’re going to drastically change what we did, I can’t imagine you’re going to change more than dates. Registration is an issue that requires more thought (see below). I’d also recommend changing age on the form to date of birth, as that’s really what we require for NZIHF registration which I ended up doing a lot of by default through the DIHL[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Prepare posters[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Email DIHA secretary and President with event notice and get confirmation[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]6 weeks from DIHL[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]Finish the regrading process so the grades are set[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z]
[list:1qcipg8z][*:1qcipg8z]I’d disagree with Ryan here. You should go to one DIHA committee meeting and introduce yourself. I don’t think anything useful will come of it, except it’s very useful to have people know your face[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Get Ryan to upload event notice and registration forms to web[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Email registration form to all previous players. Buy some stamps and post to those people that don’t have email address and who aren’t in school teams[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Email Otago Secondary School Sports Association (http://www.osssa.org.nz) and ask them to send it onto all high school ice hockey coordinators[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Send event notice to all previous team managers[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Make Ryan update the DIHL page as it’s looking kinda shabby at the moment[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Get someone to run around and put up posters for you. Really, it’s not your job[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]4 weeks from DIHL[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]Start to figure out which teams are going to enter – talk to pepole who have entered teams last time, hit up potential new team managers who will round up people. The potential team managers are very important, that’s where your growth comes from – someone to organise some beginners into a team etc[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Registration. Receipt book esential – I didn’t have one this time, and it made me very uncomfortable. Ask Jackie or Joyce to provide you with one. Offload the money to the association as soon as possible. People give you a lot of cash which is potentially a real problem, and possibly, would make a woman feel more uncomfortable in terms of potential for being robbed than big ole me. As well as giving away the receipt, write on each form how much was paid in relation to that entry. Insist on a form for each competition that each person enters, and for each person. I tended to enter the forms into the database as I went, as I found that worked better for me[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]2 weeks from DIHL[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]Look at who is entered as you come up to your final registration. Send out reminders to people who haven’t registered. Chase up team managers and make sure they’re on track[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Goalies. So important. Make sure teams have goalies, or you have goalies for them. Having a backup goalie for each grade is also useful, as often teams lose goalies and so forth. Usually the best B grade goalie can cover the A grade, failing that Sam Smith is useful to keep in mind, though he often plays, so he can only cover the other game, and there’s a few people around that can cover B in a pinch[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]1 week from DIHL[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]Start to put teams together. If you’re short, get on the phone/text, particularly when it comes to goalies. One thing to think about when putting teams together is not to put all your manager people in one team – if you spread them out you can get them to manage their own team, which is much better than managing a team you’re not playing in[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Make sure you have a manager for each team. Ryan Hellyer, Stefan King, Larry Wheeler, Graham Phipps-Black, Aaron Bryant, Kyle Matthews are all good options if you’re short[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Three or four days out, send out teams rosters and a schedule, and pass onto Ryan to add to the web site. Get team managers to phone people for whom you don’t have email addresses. Give team managers a contact list for their players if they don’t already have one[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Send a roster to Phil Handcock for organising referees, and to Joyce Miller and Jackie Christos for scorebox[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Make a list of players who are hiring gear, and what they are hiring. Send this to Joyce Miller and Jackie Christos[li][/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]First Week[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[li]I tended to print out copies of rosters for managers, ask them to put numbers on them, and return them to the scorebox. Ask them to use the same numbers every week, as the scorebox people get pissy if this isn’t done
[*:1qcipg8z]Print off a bunch of schedules and put them around for people to pick up[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]On the Night[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]I think it’s useful to be around even when you’re not playing, but not essential. I technically ran the B grade at the end of last year and never made it to a single Wednesday night – other people did most of what was needed. However being there on the night makes it easier to pester people for money, pick up any problems with the referees not being there, the scorebox, lack of goal judges, teams, players, tops etc[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]Last Week (possibly last two weeks if you have semi-finals)[/b:1qcipg8z]
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[*:1qcipg8z]Once you know who is playing who/when in the finals, do another emailout, managers doing phone calls and let players know[/*:m:1qcipg8z]
[*:1qcipg8z]Go to the supermarket and buy some goodies to give to our scorebox people. I tended to buy about three bottles of wine, and a few boxes of chocolates. Our scorebox people are completely unpaid and very crucial, so a wee thanks at the end is the least they deserve. Then give the receipt to Jackie and she’ll reimburse you[/*:m:1qcipg8z][/list:u:1qcipg8z][b:1qcipg8z]General Notes[/b:1qcipg8z]
Being a player. I found that every time I played in the DIHL I also managed a team. At one stage, I was even helping manage another team to cover them. It was the part of the DIHL I enjoyed the least, and if you can continue to play in the Beasts and have someone run that team so all you have to worry about is the overall competition, then you’ll enjoy it more. People tend to assume that because you’re organising a competition you want to organise a team, and therefore you should get left with tops, goal-judging etc etc. It’d be ideal if the person organising the competition wasn’t part of it, but I don’t see anyone like that coming forward, so it’s important that you enjoy playing in it or you’ll quickly get burnt out.
Open vs Graded DIHL. The first two DIHLs we ran were open DIHLs. That is, everyone was split into teams and everyone from beginners to top players played against each other. The last two have been graded DIHLs, with A and B grades. There’s obviously advantages and disadvantages with both. I tend to think that in general the graded DIHLs are the way forward, but that you shouldn’t rule out doing open DIHLs. It had originally been my intention to do an open ‘more social’ DIHL at the end of this year, had I been doing another one, I’m now not sure whether I would stick with that or go for another graded DIHL.
Number of teams. Even number of teams is crucial. It is possible to split an even number of teams into two pools of odd numbers, and have the odd team out play the odd team out from the other pool in a friendly, but in a grade you need even numbers of teams just because every team needs to play every week. So if you end up with an odd number, there’s two problems. One is goalies. That’s a big problem in the A grade, but there is a goalie talking about moving down from Christchurch soon, so hopefully our recent goalie shortage won’t be so bad now. Currently we only really have four A grade goalies – Nick, Toby, Aaron, and Tony. B grade isn’t so bad, there’s a few people around, who as long as the team isn’t too weak, could do OK in goal behind a B grade team. The second problem is skaters. For a DIHL team to run, you need ten skaters. That’s not just a subs problem, it’s a covering costs problem. If you end up with an odd number of teams, then you can do a couple of things. First, any teams you’ve put together yourself from individuals, skim off players until they’re all 10 skaters only. Secondly, approach pre-formed teams and see if they can let any skaters go to help out a new team. Thirdly, get on the phone to players who played last time and who aren’t signed up and nab them. Ask team managers if they have any extra players who might be willing to sign up. Go to the beginners session, team practices on Thursday night etc.
Registrations. Particularly with A grade players, I found this to be a real problem. There’s always people running, late, entering late registrations etc, but the A grade has started to take this to extremes and this year it damaged the whole A grade competition in terms of team balance, people entering but never showing, team sizes being radically out of whack etc. The alternative was to cancel the competition, but I knew it could be viable, just difficult and annoying. It helps to have both competitions running on the same timeline. Make sure your last registration is a week before the first game, as that gives you a few days before you have to send out team details and draw, in which you can chase up players/teams.
Goalies. There’s a debate about whether or not goalies should pay. We started off with not paying first time, and we also allowed one goalie not to pay to get him in to cover an A grade team once. Some of the goalies are in favour of it, some other people aren’t in favour. I’m personally not in favour, I understand the arguments for it, but goalies get plenty of ice time, the club provides them with gear for free, and just because they’re important to the team… it’s never been a major problem here making them pay, goalie shortages are more that we just don’t have enough goalies, not that they’re not playing because of the money.
Referees. Simply stay in touch with Phil Handcock and give him the dates, and then a copy of rosters and draw. He’ll make sure that referees are there for all games. This flows very smoothly and is no stress normally.
Scorebox/Timekeepers. Again, these are tremendously well organised, and Jackie and Joyce have things well under control here. There are moves to develop more people who can do this, this is great, but again, they’ll look after it.
Tops. This DIHL there have been moves to have teams look after their own tops, which is great, but again, don’t end up being a team manager as you’ll always get lumped with them. Personally I’d like to see a system where people get given a top at the beginning of the DIHL, and hand it back at the end. That would probably require some sort of bond payment system, so that would take some work.
NZIHF registration. A lot of people have taken to paying their NZIHF registration when they sign up to the DIHL, by paying another $50. While this is easier and less work, I think I’d want to think seriously about not allowing them to do this any more. It’s additional money that ends up in your pocket, and it’s not really something you should be responsible for. NZIHF registration for some of these players is very important as it qualifies them for nationals etc, so it should be done through the secretary/association, not as a tack-on to the DIHL. On the other hand, you’ll then have a nightmare of not having most of the players registered. This won’t be such a problem in Spring, as most of the players will already be registered, but come Autumn it will.
Rankings/Gradings. There’s a ranking list of players who are A grade, or who are at the top of the B grade. This should be updated before you start to accept registrations for either grade, though it’s most important for the A grade. We’ve always run B grade as a non-ranked league, which basically means that anyone 0-5 can play in it, and we also accept 6s by permission of the committee. A grade is ranked so the teams are technically balanced mathematically, though late registrations and players going in and out and goalie changes on the night throw it up in the air. Basically to do a re-ranking, I take the existing list, make some suggested changes, send it out to a bunch of people who play a fair bit of hockey and who might have suggestions, and then try and compile those suggestions into a new list. Normally it’s just a matter of someone going up or down one, people don’t tend to change radically in a few months at the A grade level. Who it goes to is really up to you, ideally you have a committee of people to whom you can send it. I think last time I sent it to Jack Li, Graham Phipps-Black, Ryan Hellyer, Aaron Bryant, Stefan King, and Phil Handcock. Phil was a late addition, but a good one, as he as a referee probably sees more hockey than most of us, and has a different viewpoint than players. I don’t know if I can give too much more in terms of tips on the ranking system. It’s very relative – so and so isn’t as good as so and so so their rank should be less etc.
Where should People Play? Strictly speaking, 5s and below (and anyone who isn’t graded but is at that level) should play B grade, and 6s and above should play A grade. In reality we let anyone who is a 5 play up, and anyone who is a 6 play down. This improves the numbers in both grades. I don’t have a problem with that, as long as people are really 5s and 6s. I wouldn’t recommend allowing 4s to play up, and 7s to play down. There was a problem this Autumn with some teams just turning up with random players who were not up to scratch in the grade. Sharks did this a couple of times for reasons that I never explored.
Ryan and I discussed at one point a manager’s handbook arising out of the rulebook which might have helped there. I think though that we had different ideas about what it might involve, and it never went anywhere.
Team Balance. Ryan and I will probably disagree on a bit of this, so just ignore everything he tells you on this topic! A grade is technically balanced by the numbers. The only thing to watch is that teams have a reasonable balance of a range of numbers. If people are forming their own teams then that’s not necessarily possible, but you don’t want to make a team with half 10s, and then everyone else a five. Partially because then another team is going to be all 7s, and the games get a bit weird. There’s also a tendency (though not always) for 10s to be able to provide leadership and help players on the bench, so if you have a team with none of them then they’re missing out and another team has three or four of them. I think the average grade has been set as having to be under 8, it could probably drop down to 7.5 without causing any major problems. B grade there is probably more potential, but it’s less clear what should be done. Technically the only requirement for a B grade league is that the players all fall in the ranking range. However that would mean that a team could consist entirely of 5s, which would be way too good for the competition. All I’ve tended to do is to look at the teams overall after they’re entered, and ask teams to ‘drop two good players’. This is easier to do if they’ve got 6s in their team – you could just say ‘you can’t have any 6s’, but whether then you have to rule out 6s from other teams as well… interesting debate. It also helps if there’s a weak team with beginners and peewees and stuff, to throw them one or two stronger players. It helped the Bears a lot this DIHL to have Ryan there – keeps the scores reasonable and means that they have a player who can beat the other team and take shots.
Casual Players. These developed into a bit of a problem in the last DIHL A grade. The casual players system in the rulebook is fairly good – basically if you bring in anyone who isn’t on your roster, they have to pay the casual fee, and they had to fit in the grade properly. How people tended to try and treat the system was “XXX can’t play tonight so I’ll play in their place”, or “the teams aren’t fair so lets bring in YYY to make it even”. Getting money in either of those instances was tricky. There were also some instances of random players turning up and as far as I could tell, not paying. I think to make this system work, both managers, and the scorebox people need to be given better information. They have a roster, anyone who isn’t on the roster, give the scorebox $12. The other question was for a pre-set team that has paid as a team and not individuals. Should they be able to bring in a casual without paying? My feeling was that yes they should be able to. If that’s the case, then should a team that’s already paid more money as individuals be able to do that? Meh, problems for someone else to sort out.
Schedules. I made up my own schedules. I have schedules which should cover most of what you need – 4 team, 7 week double round-robin; 6 team, 7 week single round-robin with two week finals; 8 team, 9 week single-round robin with two week finals; 8 team double split pool (that splits the teams into two pools for a round-robin, and then splits them into top and bottom four for a further round robin), 7 week with one week finals. 7 weeks is a good length to stick to for a competition I found, you could go anywhere between 4 teams and 12 teams in that length of time no problem. So I can provide you with schedules. Also, in terms of school holidays, I get them from http://www.minedu.govt.nz – link near the top of the page.
Goal judges. I think the club is moving towards not having these. As a referee I personally would prefer that they’re there, though most games you don’t need to ask them anything. I also think that when people score a goal they deserve the buzzer to go off – adds to the atmosphere. If you decide they’re needed all the time, then it really means that teams need to be pushed to provide them. A simple loss of points would do it though, so I guess it depends how determined you are that they’re there.
Statistics. Hopefully Michael will have made progress on the system he’s designing, so stats will be really whizz-bang and cool. I don’t know where he’s up to on this however. People appreciate statistics in a timely manner, something Ryan was good at, and something that Aaron and I weren’t so good at. There’s a lot of interest in them however, so I’d say they should still be done.
It was on some time ago, I saw people going on the ice after a midgets house league game once.
I presume it was cancelled some time after the dihl started.
If people want a night, why don’t they go for Tuesday night. We know it’s available and it’s free all year. Saturday gets wiped out sometimes for other things.
Yeah, I don’t think anyone has a problem with thinking with a future national league team as part of the branding, it just needs to be considered with the realisation that it won’t be something that we control ourselves – the NZIHL will make a final decision on any additional teams and they’ll have a say in names and colours.
There’s still a lot of value in the branding though. The penguins/prems are my son’s goal in playing ice hockey – as a stepping stone to being an NHL player! He spends heaps of time talking about them, thinking about who they are and when they’re playing.
I was thinking last night about the value of rebranding in the NHL. A few years ago the Whalers rebranded to the Hurricanes. Last year, Stanley Cup. Mighty Ducks rebranded to Ducksl. Wham, Stanley Cup. The trend is clear and things come in threes! Lord Stanley, here we come 2008.
The DIHL list also isn’t the best list for this. I realise it’s probably better than any other list that we have of members, but it’s only about 70something%. Very few of the peewees are in the DIHL, a bunch of the prems aren’t in the DIHL. Krissi can cover the peewees for us, but I don’t know how to reach the other non-DIHL people.
Hmm, see my response in the geneal forum.
For that thread to be useful again for members, a bunch of posts, including mine would have to be taken out and moved in here somewhere. I’m not sure if you’d be happy doing that though.
Alternatively, a new blank thread could be created, Ryan’s tops images inserted as the first post, background information put in, and the existing one could be ignored, and then when the result goes back to the committee, info could be pulled from all threads to provide the feedback.
It’s my understanding, and I wasn’t at any of the meetings so I could be wrong, that the there was a push to rebrand the club, and that a subcommittee of Ryan Hellyer, Ryan Wick, and Steve Jackson have gone away and come up with some ideas, with input from others.
The committee has agreed in principle to rebrand the club, to have a club name, to do new tops with a logo and colours, some signs, possible merchandising etc. The committee decided that the best way forward was to email all members with some ideas and get feedback before making a final decision.
If that’s all correct, why are people disputing it now, on here? Were things not clear at the meeting? Indeed, if we go back to Steve’s presentation, which is here:
http://www.dunedinicehockey.hellyer.kiwi/docum … _small.pdf
Isn’t it very clear in the first couple of pages that it’s a rebranding of the whole club across all grades? I’m not sure how the failure/inability of the Premiers to play games etc relates. The prems are out there playing games this season, and doing it fairly well – undefeated after… eight games?
But that’s a side issue, the branding is about the whole club at all levels, and it goes beyond team tops, it relates to marketing ice hockey in Dunedin, growing the sport, increasing our profile, and providing an image that sponsors want to link to etc etc. In short, we’re selling the sport of ice hockey.
If this was a problem, then why wasn’t it resolved at the committee meeting?
And if the committee has agreed to consult with members and get feedback, then can we focus on that a little bit more?
I have a concern (I can hear Ryan groan already).
I don’t think the discussion in the ‘new Dunedin name’ topic is really something we want to link to. At least, not the way it’s gone tonight. If a couple of committee members, who attend meetings regularly have a completely different idea than other people about what’s going on…
I’m as cynical as most about committee meetings and what goes on there, but I’m not sure there’s much use in putting out an email to all club members saying we’re seeking your opinion on this positive exercise in branding which is going to be good for the club, and then linking to a discussion where a couple of members of the committee are disputing whether the whole exercise is necessary.
I thought the committee agreed to go ahead with the branding and seek opinions. Why are people dissenting now? Were they at the meeting? Was it not clear what was decided?
I’m also concerned that some good work that some people have done is getting really mangled now it’s hit the committee!
Excellent, welcome to our lively forum!
Peter and Jerome, we’re having a meeting soon to try and help us Dunedin referees who only play non-checking to referee checking games.
I’d be keen to hear either of your thoughts on the matter of learning to referee checking hockey when that’s not what they we’ve played. Lots of us have never played much checking hockey, and we couldn’t make a good check, and most of the checking hockey that we see is NHL, and my impression is that they’re not a good model (I was watching the Stanley Cup, there seemed to be a lot of checking from behind and interference going on!). Any thoughts on strategies to get better at controlling these sorts of games?
We had some forum discussion here, including some background as to why it’s come about: http://www.dunedinicehockey.hellyer.kiwi/forum … opic=368.0
My understanding is that it’s a name for the whole club. So it’ll be peewee teams up.
And if you name it ‘brewers’, and then put the speights logo on it (or any other beer company), then I don’t think people are going to be thinking ginger beer.
Alcohol sponsorship is rather limiting unfortunately. Some parents will have problems with their kids wearing alcohol advertising. I’m not sure about Speights, but I believe some breweries have policies excluding such direct sponsorship to underage people to be safe for themselves.
I’m in favour of us choosing a name/logo/colours that promote the image that we want for the club, and then putting that image in front of potential sponsors to help us achieve our goals. Once we start to turn that process around and think about potential sponsors and what name they might want for the club, I think we’re starting to be driven by the wrong motives.
"Ryan":3kiukqbv wrote:We have a professional designer volunteering to work for us for free as part of a design course she’s taking is the problem, and she’s planning to start in a few weeks. So if we take too long she’ll just go find someone else to work for which would be a pity.
[/quote:3kiukqbv]I’m surprised that she doesn’t want to be involved from the beginning of the project. Most of these ‘real world’ design students doing things for organisations that I’ve been involved with in any way, they start from needs assessment, mock ups, consultation etc, all the way through to design. Beth’s only going to get to do that last part.
by explicit, I meant there should be a line in the email saying ‘here are some images that show what new tops could like like’ with a link to the image.
James had trouble finding the images and he looked all around the forums. It needs to be a direct link if we’re going to make it likely for everyone to be able to see it.
